Why Dopamine is Making You Unhappy (Part 2)

In the second part of ”'Why Dopamine is Making You Unhappy,” Dr. Brandon Crawford and Dr. Jerry Levine discuss the controversial topic of dopamine detox. They explore the societal impacts, especially from social media, which is designed to create addiction and trigger dopamine responses. The conversation emphasizes the importance of moderation and provides practical strategies for disconnecting from digital screens and social media to maintain balanced dopamine levels.

They highlight grounding exercises, physical movement, gratitude practices, and engaging in joyful activities as ways to balance dopamine levels. The conversation includes advice on setting beneficial time limits on screen use, understanding one's processing style, and finding hobbies that bring joy. The complex relationship between substances like alcohol and dopamine is also discussed, with an emphasis on the importance of balance and moderation. The episode concludes with insights into enhancing presence and developing positive neuroplasticity.

What You’ll Learn

• The concept of a dopamine detox, its societal implications, and the controversy surrounding it.
• The impact of social media on dopamine levels and practical strategies to regulate screen time and social media use.
• Actionable steps for incorporating physical movement, grounding exercises, and gratitude practices to combat dopamine addiction.
• The role of joyful activities and hobbies in maintaining balanced dopamine levels.
• The relationship between substances like alcohol and dopamine, and the importance of moderation to achieve overall well-being.

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Learn More
For more information, resources, and podcast episodes, visit https://tinyurl.com/3ppwdfpm

Chapters

• 0:00 The Dark Side of Social Media Addiction
• 1:05 Understanding Dopamine and Its Impact
• 1:43 Dopamine Detox: Myth or Necessity?
• 2:47 Ethical Considerations in Social Media Design
• 5:03 The Generational Divide in Social Media Use
• 9:10 The Importance of Boredom and Creativity
• 17:01 Strategies for a Balanced Digital Life
• 24:00 The Connection Between Creativity and Mental Health
• 32:36 The Power of Gratitude
• 33:49 Visualization Techniques
• 35:10 Using Gratitude to Combat Anxiety
• 36:55 Movement and Neuroplasticity
• 41:22 Finding Joy in Hobbies
• 50:13 The Importance of Being Present
• 55:08 Balancing Alcohol and Health
• 1:00:25 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

Transcript

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Social media is designed to make us addicted. It just was. I consulted with a social media application and they wanted me to get people addicted to their app.

So, you know, I've seen it from that side. And, I think if everyone were to just understand that social media is a place to advertise to you. A place to essentially drive these dopamine centers, essentially get you addicted, which then turns into depression, which then creates another marketable avenue. What are your thoughts here? I'll just pause there for a second.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: It makes me so sad because it's so contrived and it's so easy. I mean, I work with so many people who fall into that exact pattern. You know, people come to me because they're depressed.

And one of the first things we have to talk about is, how much screen time do you have? How are you using your time? What are you doing on social media? And it always surprises me that, It just looks like such a direct connect to me, you know, you go from A to B to C to D.

Voice Over: Welcome to the Longevity Formula with Dr. Brandon Crawford. Let's explore the new era of wellness. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast. Here we are on part two. So, part one we talked about dopamine. What is it? Where does it come from? Why do we need it? How can we identify challenges with it, etc.,

right? It was a phenomenal episode. We went in so many different directions. So, me and Dr. Jerry Levine, obviously. So who's joining me for part two? Sorry I didn't introduce you. I just went right into it. But here we are for part two and part two, we're largely talking about this concept of dopamine detox, right?

And that's something that's been talked about in various circles, and some people agree with it, some people disagree with it. But first. Welcome back to the show. Dr. Jerry. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Thank you. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Thank you so much for being here. Happy 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: to be 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: here. Thank you for continuing this discussion on dopamine and it's importance and this, this really, really important discussion about do we need a detox from it?

So I guess, you know, the first thing to, to answer is What is this whole dopamine detox discussion? Because it is kind of confusing, you know, some people say that's a load of crap. You don't need it. Other people say, you know, you, you know, you absolutely need to detox from dopamine, right? So, I guess here's how I'll start this conversation.

Is there in your opinion a, and I didn't prepare Dr. Jerry for this, so. You never 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: do. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's the fun of it, right? Is there do you think a An ethical societal consideration where should companies be held liable, if you will, for lack of better words, for how their product or service impacts the dopamine system.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Cool. That's deep thought. Yeah. Yeah. That's an excellent. I meant to throw 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: that one out to you before the podcast started, but you know, we started talking and I, I just wrote it down. I thought you could read my mind. I'm sorry. I know how you are. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Wow. Ethically. Yeah, I mean, in a perfect world, I would like to think that every product out there and every organization out there is for wanting my highest and greatest good.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Sadly, we know that's not true. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And so creating a standard of having to stand behind your, your product or your service in a way that is ethical, I think would be amazing. I'm not exactly sure. How to make that happen. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right, yeah, and that's the thing. I have no idea what the mechanics of that would look like.

It was just a thought, you know, you think about okay, well, cocaine's regulated. Alcohol's regulated. Nicotine's regulated. You know, you have to be a certain age and, you know, all this kind of stuff, right? So all of these addictive substances are, are regulated. Well, what about social media? Social media is very addicting.

It's at the heart of, you know, a lot of the discussion that I'm going to talk about today. Right. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Well, and regulation. I mean, just to touch on that for a second, just because something's regulated doesn't mean it's good for you. Right? It doesn't mean it's healthy. You know, they sell a noodle, what, cup of noodles in styrofoam that's full of formaldehyde.

Right. And you can get like ten for a dollar. Right. So what college kid isn't going to pick up buckets of those? Right? So, I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's a tricky It's a tricky topic. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It really is. And I think that that really gives a good example of like the difficulty in in society where we're at right now.

Why we're even having this discussion about dopamine detox, digital detox. Do you think that our society and, and, you know, we can talk about America, Europe, we can talk about, but let's just talk about like, You know, first world country societies that, you know, have this abundance of technology that we're leveraging and that we're using every day.

Do you think that this, this ease of what am I trying to say? This, this ease of use, right. For all these, these highly. Technological devices. Do you think that this has led us to a place that we have to now start this conversation about dopamine detox? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: I think so. And I think that as we brought up earlier, age is a big factor in this because someone who's older, maybe doesn't spend as much time on social media is not as drawn.

It hasn't always been a part of their life, but we have generations now They've had access to screens and cell phones since, if not from early elementary school, since birth. Yeah. You know, I see some of the families that in practice that, you know, that three year old knows more about that cell phone than I do kind of thing, you know, and I think, yikes, 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: same, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: you know, they just, it seems like they just come in knowing.

And I think that this is, this is a conversation that I think gets more and more important, especially for younger generations and that there may be more of a need for, you know, If not, just a personal regulation of, of dopamine, because again, I'm a big believer in moderation. And I believe that again, in, in to build, to build balance in my brain is one thing, but to build balance in a 13 year old girls whose entire self esteem is based on how many likes she gets that day.

That's a really different story and a really. different model of how you then find balance there. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, totally. It's a, it's a different brain that's been molded. Absolutely. And, you know, on that, on that age topic, just something that I've noticed, and I've talked about this with my wife sometimes it seems like it's easier, you know, someone is like, I don't know, I would say maybe 35 years or older.

Right. It seems like it's easier for that demographic to disconnect from, especially social media. It just seems like, you know, of course we can all get it. And I've seen every age be addicted to social media. Literally 80 year olds. Like, I've seen it. But it does seem like the older you are, the easier it is to disconnect.

Do you agree? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: I totally agree. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Why do you think that is? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: I think it's because, like you said, it's a completely different brain. And I have pathways that, that younger generation doesn't have because that's been the, that's been the stimulus. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. And, and that, that's where I was going to is that. You know, even myself, right?

I, I remember, you know, we, I didn't have social media in high school. I didn't, you know, that was God. I didn't have social media. I know. Like we, we were sitting in a, an athletic meeting, you know, for Nolan's school yesterday and just a whole segment was this discussion about phones in the locker room and social media use.

And like, it was a whole section of discussion, right? I, I, That was the first time I was exposed to that and I was like, wow, like this conversation didn't even exist when I was in high school, right? Which I don't think I'm old, but I mean, we, I guess we had phones, but I guess I didn't have cameras. So, I mean, I don't know.

It was, it was. Yeah. It was a whole different time, but we built pathways that still brought us joy, right? We would go outside and play. We would ride our bike. We would talk with our friends. We would like, so we have that to lean on. It's like, yeah, I can put my phone down and I'm going to go catch up with my buddy.

You know, now this generation that never built those pathways, they don't know what to do. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's a problem. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: It's a huge problem. It's a huge problem. Like we were talking about a while ago, People don't understand the necessity for boredom. Absolutely. You know? And what, what incredible creativity comes from that state of, of boredom.

And boredom's not even a word that I like, because I don't ever feel bored. I can, always can find a way to entertain myself. Right? There's always something I can do, or I can think about, or I can plan, or I can, But now somebody gets, you know, they're, they, they're, that dopamine starts to, you know, they don't have the stimulus, that dopamine starts to reduce and they, as a child will start making noise or squawking or whatever.

And, and in my experience, nine out of 10 times, then a parent sticks a screen in front of them again. Right. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It's easy. It helps them not be quiet. It gives them something to focus on. But. You're right. Boredom breeds creativity. What would that kid do if they didn't have that digital thing in front of them?

You know, they would probably find a stick to play with. They would find a, they would build a fort in their room. They would go pester their brother and start a fight, but at least it was physical, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: right? Or they journal or they write a poem or they you know create create something 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, so so maybe you know and this is this is a big big big topic Maybe the first thing is like we need to learn how to let our kids our younger generation Figure out what that looks like.

Figure out how to be bored, right? And, and I think you, I think I shouldn't say it that way. Not just sit there and be bored and go, I'm bored, this sucks. No, I'm bored. What can I do? Right. Go figure it out. Go outside, go for a run, go for a walk, go engage with someone else, go start a conversation, start a business plan, start thinking about the future.

Right? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. Something. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's huge. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And that's going to build a brain that can handle change and diversity. And trauma and not getting my way and having to wait for reward and all of those things that we expect children to be able to do. And we're not giving them any way to do it. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Oh, very good discussion.

You're right. 100%. This, this whole, and I'm not, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone, but, and I think it's just lack of education of, you know, I, why doesn't my kid sit still and concentrate in the screen. Why doesn't my kid, you know, learn well from, you know, this type of, I mean, whatever it is. Well, did you set your kid up for success?

Right. That's a whole can of worms that, you know, we could get into. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: That'd be a good one. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's another good podcast. How to set your kid up for success and how to learn how 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: they process information and how can you feed it to them in a way that makes sense. And, and even with this, making a point of, of, we're not going to be on the screen today.

We're going to go to the zoo or the museum or whatever. We're going to do something. We're going to learn something. We're going to expand in some way. Yeah. You know, I don't care if you go bungee jumping. It's not, it's not so much what you're doing, is that you're doing something else, right? 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I think if my kids go bungee jumping, they'll want to go every weekend.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. We've talked about that. Dad, you want to go bungee jumping? Nope. Nope. I don't. Sorry. Segway. Or tangent, whatever. Okay. So, so that's great. Let's talk. I, I, I think we have to have a conversation. about the elephant in the room, and that's social media and screens. Do you have a preference on where we go first?

No, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: you start us. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Okay, I think one thing that people need to understand, I think it would be therapeutic just to understand the mechanisms of social media. So, social media is designed, was designed, to make us addicted. It just was. I consulted with a social media application and they wanted me to get people addicted to their app.

That was why I was consulted. So, you know, I've seen it from that side. And, I think if everyone were to just understand That social media is a place to advertise to you. It's a place to essentially drive these dopamine centers, essentially get you addicted, which then turns into depression, which then creates another marketable Avenue, right?

For that whole situation. Do you, what are your thoughts here? I'll, I'll just pause there for a second. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Well, it's, it's, it makes me so sad because it's so contrived And it's so easy. I mean, I work with so many people who fall into that exact pattern. You know, people come to me because they're depressed.

And one of the first things we have to talk about is, How much screen time do you have? How are you using your time? What are you doing on social media? You know, how are you keeping up? And those kinds of things. And it's, you know, and it always surprises me that, It just looks like such a direct connect to me, you know, you go from A to B to C to D.

And when I bring this up, sometimes with patients, especially my younger ones, they're like blown away by that, you know, Oh, I had no, I, you know, I had no idea that's part of how I got here. And so it just I don't know. It's frustrating and I like social media. I use it. I use it professionally. I use it personally.

You know, I don't want to sound like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but at the same time, the, the thought that goes into the manipulation behind it and that push for addiction is, is scary. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It is scary. And, and I totally agree with you, you know, same thing, I use it. I love that I can disseminate information to people that have no idea who I am, never come in contact with me, but I can, I can educate them.

I can show them that, hey, there's a different form of healthcare. There's like, I think there's a lot of useful things there. I think that it's honestly just what it's turned into is what I'm concerned about and largely in our younger population. Because what's put on social media is a touched up version of reality that does not really exist.

And it creates a perception and an expectation of societal norms that shouldn't happen. You know, and that's unfair for our kids today. I mean, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: it is. It's completely unfair. And, and, and so, and then the parent so many times in my experience, then the parents saying, get off the phone, get off the phone. Well, then I have to go back to what do you guys do at dinner time?

Does everybody have a phone at the table? You know, are the phones allowed at the dinner table? Is the television on? You know, are you watching, you know, I mean, and I think that, I think there's a level of expectation sometimes from parent to child because maybe the parent has, like we were talking about, has a different brain and can actually do some other things.

That then creates a level of frustration, but we're also getting a lot of do as I say, not as I do. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. And it's 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: confusing. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That is confusing. Yeah, because we lead by example, right? Our actions, I always tell my kids, like, actions speak louder than words. Kids, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: our children do not do what we tell them to.

They do what they live. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, absolutely. So, I guess, God, there's so many directions we could go here. What are some okay, so what are some concepts about social media use that can because we're gonna be on it I mean, let's be honest it's great to be able to catch up, you know see a glimpse of your grandkids life or see what your buddies are up to or like I'm not saying like that whole experience is bad, but what are some guidelines, some things, how can we think through how to properly use it and not abuse it?

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Well, I mean, we talked about, I think that there has to be some kind of limitation, right? There has to be some kind of limit and that may be age or situation appropriate. I mean, I don't know that there's definite guidelines for every, I don't know. I don't know that that's something that you can set in stone necessarily.

And, and I think even just that, even that limitation that allows for some of those other things we talked about to come into fruition. Because if you're not on the screen, then what are you doing? Right? Then you're doing something else, hopefully. So, I think even just a limitation of screen time will start to open up those networks and start to open up those pathways.

And how do you, so how do you know when you need a detox? Like, how do you know that's something that's necessary? What are the, what are the, Yeah. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So I don't have, I couldn't find like a standardized form or some kind of survey or like anything like that. It was like, you need a dopamine detox. Like I couldn't really find something that was a reliable objective, you know, measurement tool or something like that.

Right. So, so that's a problem. I almost think that it's kind of like that by design that maybe that's me being a little too conspiracy theorist or whatever. Like I try not to be, but. Because if we're monitoring that, then we're really, we're really bringing balance into our life. And we're, we're not so addicted and we can't be marketed to, and we, you know, all this kind of stuff.

So you're right. Like at what point, right? Do we go, Hey, I need a dopamine detox. And I almost think this is a discussion about really just what is balanced, a balanced life look like. We shouldn't be, I do like that on the phone, it will tell you like there's a, you can go into your settings and you can see how much was I on my screen today in total?

How much was I on social media? How much was I on email? How much did I text? Like, and you can actually measure that. So I like, I like, you know, it's hard to. Monitor what you don't measure, right? So I think the number one, we should measure that if we're on our phone for, you know, 70 percent of the day, that's probably too much, you know, and, and I can't just give a blanket, Oh, you should only be on your phone 15 percent of the day because.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. It's relative. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It is very relative. It's very relative. And then there's a whole discussion about what if you have Irwin syndrome? Right. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. Which gets me into the whole blue light topic. Yeah. Because I don't think that everybody on the planet has an issue with blue light. Okay. I think you have an issue with blue light if you can't process light correctly.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: There you go. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: So. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So there you go. So, so yeah, you're right. How do we arrive at. When do we need to implement a dopamine detox? I know what I have some thoughts about it. What are your thoughts about it? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Well, I think that when I look at younger generations for sure, I think it's a bigger issue than for my generation or yours.

And I feel like already we need to be putting some kind of something in place that creates some kind of separation that creates some getting away from that the use of the screen so much. I mean, I think we have to start there. I think that any time that it just takes over and we're only looking for what's the next, where's the next high, because it's basically a high we're creating, right?

So where's the next high and, and I see it in, in people my age and I see it in people your age and I see it in younger generation, but it gets tricky because that's the last person that wants to do the detox, 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: right? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Is the one that you can see is completely driven by that. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yes. So totally agree with that.

What I think is, I think we all need to implement just a regular, I don't even know if I'd call it a dopamine detox, just a, a schedule of, okay, during the week, here's my work schedule, I have to have access to my email or to my whatever, right? What if you're a content creator, you're going to be in front of a screen.

That's what you do, right? Make sure you get screened for Ireland and make sure that, you know, you're outside enough. Like there's strategies there that we can build in to help you maintain a certain level of health and reduce your stress response. Thanks. But then we also need to schedule in okay, here when I go home, I'm going to be purposeful with my spouse.

I'm going to be purposeful with my kids. I'm going to, I have to sit my phone down, my computer down. I'm not going to respond to text messages for X period of time, right? And maybe it's the rest of the day. Maybe it's. You know, maybe I'll get one more touch point, right? All of that has to be defined by the person and I think, I think my opinion, it needs to be a little uncomfortable.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Oh, great. Agree. Yeah. Yeah. It's got to be a little bit of a stretch. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. It needs to be like, Oh, I want to check my phone right now. Right. Because if you don't feel that, then you're not really resetting those systems. Agreed. But then also there's this other time period of the weekend. Weekends hold, you know, and I am very at fault of this where the weekend really just turns into the time to play catch up, right?

All the things I didn't accomplish during the week. Apparently, that's not what a weekend is. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: True. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So really making time Maybe it's one day. Maybe it's half a day. Maybe it's not both Saturday and Sunday. I can get behind that. But a time that is simply designated to what brings you joy, which is another discussion.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So, so that's what I think. I think we all just need to build in this regular schedule and it needs to be defined on something that's a little uncomfortable, but it makes sense for your life 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: and 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: brings joy to you and brings joy to those around you. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And we have to actually implement it. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Well, that would be nice, right?

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: But, I mean, that's the next part of this. That's the next, that's the next hard step, I think, in this, is making that plan. And making that plan is still a dopamine response. Yes. So, the follow through of the plan, to me, is where the actual work takes place. Yeah, 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. It's a treadmill syndrome, right?

You can get the fanciest, nicest treadmill in the world, but if it just turns into a clothes hanger, not doing any good. Absolutely. That's good. Okay. I loved your discussion about creativity and how it's the same part of the brain is schizophrenia. And like, I just want to go there because it was very, it was very enlightening to me and I loved the discussion around it.

So, lead us down that path if you don't mind. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Okay. So. If you're looking at a brain scan, write ventrolateral prefrontal cortex. And we talked in the earlier episode about that's the part of the brain that lights up when you're building a model or when you're breaking one down. What's interesting is schizophrenia.

And bipolar to a certain extent, but more so schizophrenia. That exact part of the brain is what lights up for a schizophrenic. Right? That's one of the ways that you, that now we use brain scans in order to help diagnose. And so, if that's part of the home of creativity, and it's also the home of schizophrenia, then Maybe we're a little schizophrenic when we're creative, right?

Because what are we doing? We're stopping. The inhibitions of reality. We're stepping outside of the mold. We're stepping outside of the model. And we're, we're breaking through that model to look past it. Right? Well, yes, I know we've always done this, this way. Look at healthcare and, and what the clinic offers and what you offer.

Is, yes, it's always been done this way, but guess what? That's not working for this enormous amount of our population. And so you had to do that exact thing where you break that model and build a new one, right? And so when we inhibit those aspects of, cause you know like in a family that whole idea of when I'm working with somebody and we're working on making more money or we're working on Just more success or those kinds of things when they just want to, to feel more just productive or prosperous, whatever.

That whole, well, nobody in, nobody in our family does that. What are you doing? That's not what we do. Right, right. Kind of thing. And so this is kind of like that. It's that breaking through point. It's that. So, in schizophrenia, we, we don't inhibit, we totally abstract we don't adhere to things that have been important before.

We just let whatever there is come in, and that's kind of what also what happens in creativity. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, my, my biggest, like. Breakthrough moments have not been when I'm sitting down going, I'm going to solve this problem. I'm going to get my coffee and get my pen and paper and let's think, think, think that that is net debt.

First of all, I don't, I don't do that. But my moments of like, Oh, like those honestly, like I've had a lot of aha moments. I have an outdoor shower. It's been like 10 o'clock at night. I'm in the outdoor shower. I'm looking up at the stars. I'm like, holy smokes. That's a great idea I wouldn't think it about anything 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: right 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: and it's almost like that network just boom just turns on right but it's when I'm out there Literally just paying attention to the water running over my body listening to the crickets looking at the stars like Just kind of getting back to like creation.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Exactly, connecting with source, right? Yeah, 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: exactly. And that's literally when I have my best aha moments. So maybe I'm a little schizophrenic in that moment. It's not a bad 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: thing. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: If so, bring it on. Right. I mean, as long as I'm not, you know, I can turn that off at some points in time. Right. Oh, man. That's a, that's a really cool topic that I love thinking about that and how we can use these, what someone consider an imbalance and ensure it's imbalanced if you can't regulate it properly and whatnot, but how that really creates this diversity of, Brainstrengths that some of us are really good at these things and 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: right 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: some people aren't and 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: and some of the things that we rely On day to day our inventions or ideas or our art that have come from What you would call an imbalanced brain what we would call a schizophrenic or a bipolar brain 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: big time Einstein Tesla You name it.

These were not just regular people that, you know, they would be considered autistic and all kinds of things, right? Bipolar. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Yeah. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I mean, weren't you saying Einstein was probably bipolar? Is that what you were saying? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Yes. Einstein was bipolar. Tesla is schizophrenic. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. Yeah. And so definitely on the spectrum.

Right. Oh, yeah. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: But, you know, and, and, and had incredible breakthroughs and discoveries and things they'll be known for forever and at the same time had incredibly difficult lives and not happy lives. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's We can take this in any direction you want to, but I think people would appreciate like, let's start talking about some of these strategies, right?

That, that one can, we've already talked about a few. I think it's extremely important again, for people to understand social media a little bit deeper. And we already talked about, you know, some ways you can use it, not use it, et cetera. I think an obvious one is just time limits. And this is time limits on social media screen use.

Anything. You can put a time limit on anything. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Any screen. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: But I mean, I think it's very important because that helps us build inhibitory pathways that helps us build discipline and it helps us not, not just succumb to that urge that dopamine crash to reach and grab and do. And right. So I think time limits are.

That's kind of the easy one, right? It's a low hanging fruit. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Yeah, easiest one to define, for sure. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. I don't necessarily have specific time limit guidelines that I could really think of. Do you have any thoughts on that? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: No, I think it's situational. Honestly you did a video, but I, but I think information around it's so important.

You did a video a while ago with Nolan hooked up with looking at a QEEG and his brain on a screen. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Correct. Right. Oh yeah. It was a long time ago. Yeah. What? Okay. That was interesting because he would always play this video game and I forget what it was. Minecraft or roadblocks or I don't know what it was.

And I was like, Nolan, that's not good for your brain. That's not good for your brain. And he was like, you can't prove that. And I was like, yeah, I can. And so it took him into the office, put the QEG on him. I was like, here's your brain. Not on the game, right? We looked at it, we talked about it, and as soon as he started playing it, that brain changed.

And, and I showed him, like, okay, look. Right, he 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: started to shut down, right? Absolutely. Prefrontal cortex started to shut down. He started to 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: see slow wave activity, you know, in the frontal lobe, prefrontal cortex, etc. It started to dumb him down, right? And he, it was, it was eye opening for him. He actually understands, he's a pretty smart guy.

He was like, wow, like, you know, not saying he completely stopped playing it, which was not my intent, but just to help build in time. To show the 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: reason for moderation. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, absolutely. Which is super, super important. I'm going to go back to my discussion of it needs to be uncomfortable. So, you know, if you're like, Hey, I can, I can be off of social media for one hour a day.

No problem. Great. Let's do three. Oh, that's a little too uncomfortable. I can't do that. Okay. We'll start with two. Is that uncomfortable? That's a little uncomfortable. Okay. Start there. And then, you know, next week, let's try two and a half hours. You know? All right. It needs to be uncomfortable in my opinion, and we already talked about that.

So set your time limits appropriately, right? And that's for screen, that's for social media, that's for, honestly it's for anything, it's just kind of pulling you in, sucking you in, right? Right. Gratitude. We talked about it in part one. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: We did. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Let's talk about gratitude. Again, because it needs, it needs it, right?

We need to talk about this again. So strategies to utilize gratitude to help us overcome this dopamine addiction situation. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Okay. So there are lots of things you can do. You can do a gratitude journal which is, which is often helpful. So in a gratitude journal. You're going to write down, pick a number, 3, 5, 10 things that you're grateful for every day.

It's, the writing is nice. That's a visual activity, not a kinesthetic activity. So it's going to connect to more parts of the brain. So much of the information we take in is visual. It's going to light more up. So I think that's really helpful. I like mine where you just have to think of three things that you're grateful for every morning and then reach out to one person during the day for whom you're grateful so you can send them a text or an email or, well, a social media contact if it's within your time frame.

Otherwise, call them. Leave them a voicemail if they're not available. I think those things are important. And just spending time when we're grateful for someone or grateful for a situation, I think it's important to sit in that a little bit. Oh yeah, I'm super grateful for, you know, my friend, but, and I can, you know, I can check these off real quickly, but to really sit in it for a few minutes and why am I so grateful for this person or why am I so grateful for this situation and create, I mean, just create a whole visualization around that gratitude and find where that, where do you feel that in the body?

Where does that live in you? And what does that look like? And anytime there are studies that show anytime you're doing a visual visualization, when you're in that visualization and you're creating this landscape, the situation, you want to be able to do a 360 degree turn. You don't want just the projection of that out in front of you.

You want to know that you're in it and that holds so much more. Meaning than than just the projection of that. So, like, when we're doing the V cell procedures, a lot of times with those visualizations, I'll ask somebody to, you know, where are you, you know, like, we had somebody who wanted to drive his.

Brand new truck, right? And he was in the mountains of Colorado and the window was down and he could feel the air and he could look in the rear view mirror and he could see behind him, you know, those kinds of things will really exponentially create a greater degree of gratitude in the brain.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. And, and we talked about the neurology, the neuro chemistry behind gratitude and part one. So definitely want people to go back and listen to that if you haven't listened to it. But super important, very therapeutic and honestly just helps to shape a proper society. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Absolutely. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And you can't be in gratitude and fear at the same time.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And that's a big one. So I use it a lot with anxiety. As a precursor, it's hard to pull somebody out of a panic attack in the middle of one by asking them to be grateful. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: But if they'll spend more time on gratitude, then sometimes we don't ever get to that escalation. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah, absolutely. I, I, I've done this a few times.

It's harder for me to do with a guy because with a woman that has had birth and the birth was a positive experience. I have been able to a few times been able to take that woman back to that experience. I had someone that was in a complete panic attack and I just said, okay, do you remember when you were giving birth?

Yes. There was not a soul on this planet that was able to help you. You were on your own and she was like, yeah, I remember that. I'm like, do you remember how strong you were when you pushed this kiddo out and everything went well? And. After that, how did you feel and she was like, Oh my God, I felt this, this release, this sensation of love, this like this, you know, they got this huge surge of oxytocin and this whole, you know, there's no neurochemistry and connecting them back to that about how powerful they are as another discussion, but yeah, but that's 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: a brilliant, that's a brilliant somatic exercise.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. It's been interesting to watch how that has worked for some people, but clearly if the birth didn't go well and all this, there's strings attached, but, but you can go back 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: to a favorite childhood pet, right? Or, or a situation where you felt powerful, where you felt taken care of, right? Where you felt safe.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. Absolutely. I like to talk about movement, right? As far as strategies that we need to deploy in order to help us overcome this dopamine addiction, if you will. I talked about that a little bit on part one, but, but go outside, you know, if, if you're struggling to disconnect from a screen, if you're struggling to disconnect from social media, from email, from whatever, go outside, take a walk.

Go do some push ups. Go do some squats. Go do some wall sits. Go, like, go do. That's the thing, is go do. And that movement is going to start, start to stimulate your brain and help you to be okay with not being on a screen. I think that's very important. And again, it's, it, time is so relative here and that's why I, I just hesitate to put time restrictions.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Well, and I liked what you said. I think you have to, I think we have to use the concept of distraction in a different way. Because now instead of the screen being a distraction, distraction we are distracting ourselves from the screen. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Very good. Yeah, absolutely. And I 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: think that's, I think that's important to look for.

And we do the same thing with anytime we're building different neuroplasticity, we're always building neuroplasticity. a point that I think sometimes gets overlooked, we're always building it. Always. So, we want to build what has been termed positive neuroplasticity and that it works for us in a positive way, I guess, is how you'd look at that.

I don't know. I'm not crazy about the terminology, quite frankly. But that distracting It doesn't matter how many times you have to pull yourself back, or pull yourself back, or pull yourself away. Just in doing that pulling, we know that we are creating a different pathway. And, and that's really, I think, important for people to understand is, Man, I totally screwed that.

I thought about my phone every 15 seconds, even though I wasn't looking at it. Right, but you're pulling yourself away from that same thought. Right. And so we're headed in the right direction. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and that's what I mean. Okay. Yes. So it's that pain pleasure response, right? 100%.

Absolutely. And, and that's why I do cold plunges. That's why I run until I start to get tunnel vision. That's why, you know, it's, it's the same thing. Like that, that pain, that uncomfortableness, like that is something. That is almost good in a way in this this mindset of what we're trying to achieve, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: right?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: And it doesn't mean you failed just because you're you could not disconnect fully. You're starting to make new pathways It's not easy. You don't take a three month old baby stand up on their feet and say walk Good luck. They're going to fall. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: There's not a baby. Well, I don't know. I don't know if I can say this statement.

I was going to say, there's not a baby on the planet that didn't, you know, walk or just stand up and start walking. Right. And didn't fall. Right. That doesn't happen. You have to make new pathways and then prune new pathways, make them more efficient. It's a whole process and then it 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't stop, right?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: You don't ever like even now my gate continues to be altered, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: right? 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Even though I've been walking for a very long time. Oh, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: that's fair. That's a good point. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. My thought patterns continue to change the way I, my intonation continues to change. Go look at recordings for me five, six, seven years ago.

I spoke differently, right? Well, I've been speaking for a very long time. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Nice. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: We will always continue to build plasticity and continue to change. And 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: this is one of those places where I just, I think the balance is so important there. Right? Especially with, I mean, it, it's hard. Cause I mean, I, I know it's hard for me to put it down.

It's hard for me to not, there are lots of people wanting my attention. And I'm involved in different businesses. And so all of that, I feel like I have to keep my hand on the phone to keep it going kind of thing. And, and at my age, I know that I have a lot of other neural pathways that this hasn't always been the focus.

So for, for the young ones, especially. It, it, it, it's so important that we learn to create some kind of balance, right? That we learn to, to be able to step away from it and it not be the 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: end of the world. Absolutely. And then we already touched on this concept of Boredom breeds creativity, right? Do you think that it's better to like, do some type of activity that promotes you creating something like a workbook or something like this, or do you like what I was talking about, where you're just kind of opening yourself up, you know, allowing things to, I, that maybe not everyone can do that, you know?

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Maybe not. Cause I'm more that way too. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: You know, I'll just be thinking about nothing or I'm sitting on a plane and the guy in the next aisle has taken off his shoes and put his feet on the wall or, you know, whatever. And you're just like, wow, who raised you? And then bam, something comes, you know, of, Oh, we could do this or here's an idea.

Or so I'm more that way, but I don't know if that's because of I'm a product of, you know, My generation or, or my experiences, right? So initially, if that is just absolutely the most painful thing you can think of is just to sit and try to entertain yourself with your own thoughts, then, yeah, then I would, I would want something to, to take the, To take the thought.

I mean, I'd want, I'd want the attention to be able to go somewhere and if you need, if you need something to do that, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. I agree. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And there, and there may very well be people. Who, who are not young, who don't process like we do and don't just, things just don't pop in.

Yes. You know, a lot of times when I get blocked, I am, I'm right handed dominant. So a lot of times if, if I feel like when you talked earlier about that whole situation about I'm going to figure this out and sometimes I get in a time thing where I kind of have to figure this out, right? And so. Yeah. I will write with my left hand and that, and I am not ambidextrous in any form.

And so that is painful and uncomfortable. And I start thinking of a thousand different things and nine out of 10 times, something either starts to come together there in that writing, or it gets me back to that place where I am so open that I can, I can have other thoughts. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Does that make sense? So, I mean, there are lots of little things to do.

Sure. To distract. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. I think that's great. Yeah, absolutely. I like that idea. I like that concept. That movement, then, because, you know, we have a, our blueprint, sensory drives movement and movement drives cognition. Right. So, you're just. Accessing a different part of the brain by changing how you move.

I mean, that's, you know, there's more to it than that, but I love that concept. That's great. I like the idea of, you know, if you are that person that doesn't necessarily know how to just kind of disconnect or, you know, sit under the stars and like what I was talking about, that's a good opportunity to implement learning.

Right. So. Read a book. What topic do you want to learn more about? Do you want to learn a language? Do you, right? This is a good opportunity to read an actual book or, you know, learn an actual thing, right? A skill, a hobby, right? That was another thing on the list. Learn a skill, develop a hobby, right?

Those are things. It's hard for me to think about a hobby because I don't have time to have a hobby at this point in time. But apparently that's a thing, right? Apparently. But here's a question. Should that hobby be, be joyful? Should it bring you joy? Should, or does, is that not a requirement? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Oh, absolutely.

It should bring you joy. Thank you. Absolutely. So my grandmother was going to teach me, I mean, my grandmother could make her own lace Like, she could sew, she could crochet, she could do all the things. And she was going to teach me to sew, and this was going to be so much fun, and we were going to do this together, and it was going to be like our thing.

It is painful, it is, it is difficult, I am not any good at it, I don't like to do things that I can't eventually feel some level of success in, and so, and she was so devastated because I hated it. And And I wanted to please, I mean, I'm a pleaser. I wanted to please her. I wanted this to be our thing. You know, this was new and different and something I didn't have any idea how to do.

And I had no, no, no understanding that I wasn't going to be any, like, that I wasn't going to be able to do this. Right? I mean, And she didn't try to set me up to fail. It was just, I love this. I do this. We can do this together. We can pass this down to you. And oh my gosh, it was miserable. And so sadly it's something we didn't wind up doing together, but.

Because it brought me zero joy, it's got to be fun. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: right. And I think there has to feel, you have to feel like you have, either that it's a kind of situation where you go to the museum or the zoo or wherever you like to visit because those things are fun, that brings you joy to look at that work or those kinds of things, or it's something where you can feel a modicum of success.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right? 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. Absolutely. And that, you know, interesting conversation, right? So I was talking with another patient, right? And I'm talking about, okay, what do you do for you time? Like what, what does that look like? And I think, well, I know they answered. A way that they thought I would approve of as their provider, right?

So they said, well, I, I like to run, I like to meditate. I like in it, right? And I'm like, okay. So you're telling me that if your spouse took the kids and there was nothing that you needed to do, there was no, right? You, you get to do anything that you want to do for the next two hours. Right. Or one hour.

Whatever. You would go for a run. She goes, absolutely not. And I'm like, okay, you would meditate and she was like, hell no, I wouldn't meditate. I'm like, okay, what would you do? She's like, I would lay in my bed and, and read this book that I started, you know, and I'm like, that's your joyful thing you need to be doing.

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's great to run. It's great to meditate. It's great to do all those things. And I think you should do some type of exercise. It doesn't have to be running. Right. Right. But these moments, like they need to be joyful. They need to be something that you enjoy doing. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Yes. Absolutely. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: And that's the discussion on the dopamine, right?

Right. If, if, if you're just doing it just to do it, you're not really accomplishing what we need to accomplish. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Exactly. Exactly. And so while I know I, I do exercise and I do meditate and I do all the other things, my thing is two hours in the pool on a float. There you go. Just let me lie here. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And, and sometimes I think of stuff and sometimes I don't, but man, I get out of the pool two hours later and I couldn't be happier. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. And, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: and, and home has understood now that this is really important. And yes, there's this whole list of things for Jerry to do because he's been out of town for 12 days.

But if it's not raining, 12 days, and if it's not raining, that's where you, that's where you will find me the first morning off. Right. Or I'm even that first day back. I'm arranging patients around my, I have no problem walking into appointment wet hair, you know? I mean, I know I have to have that time. So you just, you have exactly right.

You have to find what brings you joy or brings you some level of peace. Whether it makes sense to anybody else or not, it's not, it's, that's not, that's 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: irrelevant. Yeah. 100 percent and I guess that's a good, a good discussion of if you don't understand why your spouse or your significant other, your friend or whatever, like wants to do the thing that they do, like.

You don't have to understand it. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: No! 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I, I mean, I don't understand why that is. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: I come out of the pool a much nicer person than the person who went into the pool I can tell you right now. 100%. Yes. And so why not? Give me two hours. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yes. Absolutely. It's to their benefit. Yes. And so sometimes it makes sense.

Sometimes it's like, oh yeah, run. Oh yeah, meditate. Get in your sauna. Do your cold plunge. Whatever. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. Right. And that's okay. That's totally fine. Cool. So yeah, do something you enjoy. You do something you love. You enjoy. You want to do something that pulls you in. It's so important to engage in those activities, right?

As long as you're healthy and they're not hurting other people. The, the thing that I have last on the list and I have it last, I think it's a big topic. I think it's one that I struggle with. It's just being present, right? Because. And we kind of talked about, you know, okay, I can set my phone down over there and I can be with my kids, but am I really with my kids?

And that's hard. And maybe that's just hard for me. I don't know, but Holy smokes is that hard because I can put my phone a mile down the road, but my mind is still going through the conversations that are on the phone. My mind is still going through those emails. My mind is still going through that, right?

So, I, I don't know. Do you have any, any help for me on this topic? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: So I think this is a place where somatic exercises really come in handy because they make you be present. So for you especially, movement's important and you're more in your body when you're moving, right? And so take a walk with the kids or, or even just sit in the grass outside, right?

Or stick your feet in the water. You know, whatever, those kinds of things when you're being present and then in the conversation, and this is just the truth. It does not matter how engaged we are with the person that we're with. Most of us are thinking about six or seven other things simultaneously.

That's just what we do. Right. And so that even while you're having conversation with that person, instead of doing all of those conversations, feel the chair, your feet on the ground, the sun on your face. The breeze in your hair, those kinds of things will help keep you more present. The more we do them, the more automatic that becomes and we just do it without thinking and then we're just there.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Nice. I like that. So it's like bringing your physical presence, like almost grounding you. Yes. Yeah. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: It's, it's all about grounding. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's good. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, I know that's probably the biggest thing I struggle with. Right. I can turn my phone off, but then I can't, I struggle turning this off, I struggle turning my brain off.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Well, and I think too, at some point, maybe in another discussion, we could get into more how we process how, cause we all process the same, same, different, different you'd see in Thailand. So, but there are, there are basic. Categories in which we fall as far as processing go visually, auditorily, and kinesthetically consciously, subconsciously, and unconsciously.

So the trick is, which one do we do on which level? So if I, I'm very visual. And so if we're making eye contact, I can sit and be still and I can talk to you. I am consciously, I am, so I'm visual on a conscious level, I'm auditory on a subconscious level, I'm kinesthetic on a, on a, on a subconscious level and kinesthetic on an unconscious level.

So like if I go in for a massage and the massage therapist wants to talk, I'm doomed. Because I can't have that conversation and relax. Gotcha. Right? I can't walk into the grocery store holding hands with somebody and remember why I'm there. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Oh, interesting. Right? Yeah, yeah, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: yeah. So, I think too, not only in the being present is it important to, to do that somatic work and to be grounded, but it's also really important to know how you process.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's great. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And how the person you're dealing with processes. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: We need to do a whole podcast on that. Yeah. Because that, that, you wrote like a thesis on that Yeah, that was 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: my EDD. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: That's nice. That's good. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I need to, I need to learn and learn and lean into that more because that, that's a huge topic that could really help in so many different ways.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. That's good. Well, cool. Well, I guess so caught up in listening to that. I kind of forgot where we were going to go next, just to be honest. Yeah. What is there? Is there anything else a 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: little bit we, we touched on this in the, in the first one, but again, I think too, when we talk about looking for a distraction or we talk about stepping away from the digital, instead of just being in that vacuum of reducing dopamine is to build up the endorphins, the serotonin, the oxytocin, right?

Those, those things in the brain. And so, It's just important to look for activities that do that kind of thing. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. One of the reason I think the pool works so well for me is I like the sun and Bill serotonin. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. And I'm calm and I'm happy when, when I get that time in the sun. Right.

The oxytocin when you're playing with, when you're having conversation. So, and it's one of the nice things that the, the distractions that we're talking about. Do build those chemicals. I just think the more conscious we are about building those other chemicals, I think then the more we start to focus on them.

Anytime we're focusing on that, then we're not thinking about the phone. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So, I know where I was gonna go and your discussion kinda brought that back to me, but I think it's important to note you know, so I'm not anti drinking, right? I mean, I'll drink a good tequila every now and then. Obviously, I'm not gonna go drink an entire bottle on the night, right?

Or if I do, it's gonna be a wild morning, you know? So at what point is it okay, not okay, to, in these moments where it's like, okay, I need to wind my mind down. I need to not be on social media. I need to not continue to work on my emails and man, this would be a lot easier if I just had a few shots of tequila in me.

And you know, obviously that alcohol is GABAergic and then there's other discussions about what reduces integrity of the prefrontal cortex, the cerebellum, the, you know, all these things. And we don't have to just pick on alcohol. I mean, we can talk about any substance, you know, in the world. There's also a dopamine response with alcohol.

There's a dopamine response with hearing the, the pop of the beer can. Oh, for sure. I 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: mean, 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: so. Because 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: it's the anticipation. Exactly. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: So at what point is that okay? Not okay. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Oh, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I know. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, because you know, you 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: have to take other things into consideration.

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yes. And that's the, the, that's the, and that's where I'm going. Right. Obviously, if you have alcoholism as part of your background or your family lineage or something like that, this could be a bigger, a bigger issue for you, right? And maybe, maybe we're not, maybe we want, we want to be better about how we regulate that for that person.

If it's not Well, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: but then, but then, okay, so yeah, but then even when you look at how well does my system handle inflammation, 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: right? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: You know, how well is my gut work? 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Yeah. Do I have a gluten issue? Like, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: I mean, 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: if I drink just one, so when I was growing up, right, so I'm small town Texas. If you didn't go out and drink a beer in a cow pasture, you are not part of the cool kids.

Right. And so I did a lot of beer drinking in cow pastures. Right. I thought I was hung over. I was not hung over. I was intolerant to gluten. It didn't matter if I drank one beer or 25. I was in the bathroom the entire next day. Right? So yeah, like what's your inflammatory load? What's your neurochemistry look like?

What's your neuro autoimmunity look like? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: And, and, and I will partake as, as do you, but at the same time, is there anyone on the planet for whom this is actually healthy? 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Is this ever really a good idea? 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's not like we have an alcohol deficiency. Right. And that's why our mind is racing.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Right. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Oh, your mind is racing. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Here. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: You have a lack of vitamin T, here's your tequila, right? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: I like it. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right? Yeah. So, it's, you know, it's one of those things. I've heard great discussions on this, you obviously being in the health and longevity space and part of the biohackers, you know, there's some people that are, they'll tell you, no, never, no, you can't have one drop and you have to extend your life and all this kind of stuff.

I'm like, yeah. But what if a little bit makes me have a better life, right? A more fun, a fuller life. That's an interesting conversation, right? Because even people like Dr. Atiyah, you know, those, you know, kind of side with me on this one where it's like, well, yeah, I like a good tequila every now and then.

I think Dr. Huberman has said the same thing. So it is about that understanding What you're doing to yourself. I think that's very important. Understanding the potential ramifications. I'm not going to reach for a beer, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: but a 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: good clean tequila is okay for me. Right 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: on occasion 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: and understanding that.

Right. Very, very important. So cool. Anything else you want to add to that one? That was fun discussion. That was good. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: No, I think I'm good. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: I'd rather 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: you have tequila than sugar. So 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: yeah. Oh, Yeah. Well, it's funny. It really 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: is the devil. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: It's funny how we think about that. Right? Because it's like, Hey, do you want to go eat six cookies?

No. Why would I do that? That's no way. Hey, you want a few shots of tequila? Bring it on. Let's go. You know, it's like our minds, but that's our mindset, right? Where, where, and I'm, you know, you, you go into a home that has been, you know, that's in a, you know, the Bible belt and they've been raised that, You know, in a certain way and whatnot, and they'll totally take the six cookies, 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: right?

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. And that's not always the case. I'm just using that as an example of like, Is that really more health promoting, you know? The older Hispanic culture actually used tequila as a gut tonic, right? It was a good prebiotic. It's higher in inulin. So, you know, maybe it has good health promotion benefits too, anyway.

I feel like we should get a sponsor. Oh my 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: gosh, I was just thinking exactly the same thing. I wonder what Don Julio is doing right now. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Don Julio, Addictivo. We should get a sponsor for this episode. That would be very good. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Ah, great minds. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Oh man, well, I guess you can see where our mind is going. You know, we've been, gosh, we've been in this podcast studio for several hours now talking about dopamine in front of bright lights.

Our dopamine systems, I think, I don't mind, is starting to crash. Oh my gosh. Do you have anything else that you want to add to this conversation? 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: God, I think we kind of, I think we kind of covered it. I think that anytime, I think if you're watching this segment and you wonder if a dopamine detox or stepping away from it a little bit would be a good idea.

Then I think it's worth exploring. Yeah, I really do. And if you are adamant that this is not a good idea, I think it's definitely worth exploring. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Absolutely. I think, I think that person is probably the one that should reach out to a provider. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Yes. 

To get a little support while doing this. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Right. And unfortunately that person's probably not the one that's going to do it.

So it's going to, you know, take some assistance from a loved one or, you know, someone like that. But. You know, the, the more stubborn you are about this topic, the more you need it, most likely, I think so. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Yeah, 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: well, cool. Well, thank you so much for joining me again. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Thanks for having me. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: Maybe we should just stick around to a part three.

I don't know. I 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: think it's 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: lunchtime. I'm getting really hungry. 

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Okay. 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: But again, you know, really, thank you so much. I appreciate your input and all your, your help on everything we do. And, and, you know, just being so accessible. You know, for me, but then also for our patients to help them navigate through some really, really difficult times.

Dr. Jeri LaVigne: Thanks. I appreciate 

Dr. Brandon Crawford: the work. And for all you people out there that found this information interesting or enlightening or helpful in some way, please help us get this information out there because there's someone that you know that could benefit from this information. And that's why we're here. We're here to help others.

So please share this content, like this content, follow this channel, whatever that is. I don't know how that works, but anyway, help us get this information in front of more people. So thank you so much. And we will see you next time.

Voice Over: We hope today's episode has inspired you to take that next step towards your best self. Remember the path to longevity is paved with small daily decisions. Your journey is unique and every step, every choice brings you closer to your ultimate vision of a healthier, happier life. For more insights, tips, and resources, visit drbrandoncrawford.com.